Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Professional wrestling

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Video Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Professional wrestling

Dana Brooke also a manager?

I notice Titus O'Neil or Apollo isn't listed under people managed by Dana Brooke or vice versa. Wouldn't it be correct to call her their manager? Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 00:29, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

I haven't ever heard them refer to her as a manager. Only as the statistician (I think thats the term they use). - Galatz^Talk 02:29, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Dana Brooke is their manager, that's just a matter of semantics. Was Tyson Tomko Christian's manager? He was called his "problem solver" or whatever (not that it matters). A manager accompanies a wrestler to the ring. What they do at ringside really isn't what defines a manager. In fact, I don't remember the last time the WWE even used the term. -- Moe Epsilon 04:00, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Very true, it seems WWE just doesn't use the term "manager". Even Paul Heyman, who's current role is the very model of a pro wrestling manager, is called an "advocate", not a manager. We shouldn't get hung up on the exact storyline term. That said, do we use "manager" or "valet"? oknazevad (talk) 04:12, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

In describing what Brookes does, traditionally I think the term valet is more correct. Sunny was the quintessential valet, but under the section where you list who they associated with, it still says "wrestlers managed". -- Moe Epsilon 05:33, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

I think the difference is that Sunny was a true Valet. Dana Brooke was asked to join Titus Worldwide, not manage them. She is a female wrestler. Big E isn't considered a manager when the other two of The New Day are wrestling. Owen's isn't Sami's manager but he is out there for every match. Coming out isn't the only criteria. Heyman has said before he is not a manager, he doesn't manage Lesnar, he is only his mouth piece which is why he calls himself the advocate. Its more of a PR role - Galatz^Talk 14:20, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

I think this is more of a difference between kayfabe and not. We're not interested in the reason they are out there for the purpose of storyline. If you don't consider Heyman Lesnar's manager, then you might have to re-evaluate because he is one of the last true managers in WWE. The only criteria for a manager is accompanying them to the ring, providing distractions/assistance, etc. in storyline. They don't have to come on a microphone and announce their "managership". -- Moe Epsilon 20:23, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Heyman is definitely closer to a manager but I do not believe he acts the way typical managers of old do. If it were black or white, then yes he would be a manager, but Dana Brooke would not be. She just happens to be the female member of the the faction. - Galatz^Talk 20:29, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

That's kind of a gray area that I don't think Wikipedia hits. Chyna was definitely a female member of a faction, DX, but was also a manager. -- Moe Epsilon 21:00, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

• There is a source, calling her a valet. [1] I think, call them advocates, coaches, life manager, personal trainer... a lot of names for managers. I think Dana is the female member of TWW and also, the valet. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 22:56, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Since there is a credible source calling her a manager or whatever, it should be added to all articles necessary. I will do that now. Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 16:31, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Maps Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Professional wrestling

Participate on the move progress

Talk:IWGP United States Heavyweight Championship 92.27.41.69 (talk) 23:19, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

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Dalton Castle move discussion

Talk:Dalton Castle (wrestler)#Requested move 16 March 2018 - Galatz^Talk 15:23, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

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Josh the Grand Champion

According to Impact website, Mathews is the current Grand Champion. [2] However, Don Callis said this reigns isn't oficial months ago. So, any idea? --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 16:21, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

I would say that to me this sounds like official recognition. Unfortunately its wrestling and they could have decided on future storyline changes and therefore this fits their current future thoughts better. Not really sure - Galatz^Talk 16:27, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Grand Champion and X-Division Champion Matt Sydal is in the ring to reveal who his spirit guide is. To the shock of many, it turns out to be Josh Mathews! Josh gives Sydal a gift to celebrate his accomplishments, a mask of his spirit animal! In return, Sydal gives Josh a gift of his own - the IMPACT Grand Championship! Josh Mathews is your new Grand Champion. [3] - Galatz^Talk 16:32, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

I'd wait till next week for (spoiler) the announcement that Impact does not recognize the handoff as valid. It's already known. oknazevad (talk) 17:21, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

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The Dusty Rhodes Tag Team Classic

The Dusty Rhodes Tag Team Classic is an annual event as we know. It should have its own article. But it redirects to NXT TakeOver: Respect. I am curious as to why no article has not been created considering it's an annual tournament in a major promotion. Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 15:21, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

• there is, it is at Dusty Rhodes Tag Team Classic, i fixed the redirect.  MPJ-DK  16:26, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) It does already exist, see Dusty Rhodes Tag Team Classic. For future reference, if you want a page created, either create it yourself, or add it to Portal:Professional wrestling/Opentask. A lot of people don't know about the latter so I'm just putting it out there. JTP ^{(talk o contribs)} 16:28, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

@NotTheFakeJTP:, I've created many pages such as Dean Ambrose, TJ Perkins, and Adam Cole to name a few of the major names. I was confused as to why it redirected to that particular TakeOver leading me to think it had no article hence why I came here. Thank you to @MPJ-DK: for fixing it. Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 01:52, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

I think it was created for the first tournament, not knowing that it would be a recurring thing, and everyone just forgot about it.  MPJ-DK  01:58, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

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Where to list titles

A few years ago it was standard practice to list a title under the name of the promotion where it was won, but I have started to see a few occasions of titles listed underneath the promotion that owns the championship rather than where it was won (for example, the Dudley Boyz won their second IWGP Tag Team Championship in TNA, not New Japan). I wondered what the style guide is and if I would be right in moving them around? Tony2Times (talk) 15:57, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

• I Think that only applied to NWA terretorries, not Independent promotion like NJPW and TNA, all TNA changes are approved bybTNA after all.  MPJ-DK  23:14, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

@MPJ-DK:: Technically, it doesn't. It should be where they won the titles not the promotion that owns them. If that was the case, Grand Hamada would have the WWF Light Heavyweight Championship listed under World Wrestling Federation not Universal Wrestling Association. Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 22:25, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Always exceptions, especially in Mexico. But to list an NJPW title under TNA is quite frankly misguided - list it under the promotion that controls it, TNA did not unilaterally make the Call.  MPJ-DK  23:40, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

And the UWA made all decisions on the LH title at the time, they were the owners.  MPJ-DK  23:42, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

During Joey Ryan's reign as DDT Heavymetalweight Champion, the title changed hands in a lot of promotions. However, the title is listed under DDT Pro. Nick Aldis won the NWA title at CZW Cage of Death, but is listed under NWA. However... Jeff Jarrett NWA North American title is listed under WWF. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 00:00, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

This is happening a lot now with Impact's affiliation deals. They have guys wrestling at events for different promotions but they are airing it on their show. Other promotions have their guys wrestling on Impact too. Taiji Ishimori for example is currently signed by Pro Wrestling Noah but won and lost the Impact X Division Championship on an Impact show. Its listed as Impact but not so sure about which way is best, since nothing had to do with Noah at the time, except for where his contract was. If one of the AAA titles were lost to an Impact guy on Impact, I think that would make more sense to show it with Impact. Perhaps the best way to do it is to say whichever show/event it was won at is where its listed. - Galatz^Talk 00:40, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

To be honest, I'm not really sure why it would get listed in the promotion it was won at. Unless the titles suddenly became a part of that promotion (say the NWA belts in TNA), then it should be listed under the company the belts are owned and managed by. For instance, Kid Lycos won the CSW tag belts on a pro wrestling chaos show in the UK, does that suddenly mean that he won the pro wrestling chaos CZW belts?

After all, even if it's won on a different show, it should still be defended on that original show. I understand there is an issue regarding winning a belt in a company that you've never worked for, but the belts are still the ones from that company, and they get to chose who holds it... Unless the belt is owned by a wrestler, but that's more confusing. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk o contribs)} 08:30, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

It can get very confusing. Booker T won the WCW Championship on the last Nitro, a WCW event. He held the title for an additional 119 days, all under WWF but this reign is listed under WCW even though WWF owened WCW at the time. We also list NXT titles separate but Raw, SmackDown and ECW under one. Why dont we just solve everything by showing Championships and list everything alphabetical under it. - Galatz^Talk 12:21, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

On one hand that may be the simplest, but there's value in grouping titles by promotion. To me who owns the title, and therefore controls who carries it, is more important than who ran the show where the title change happened. Yeah, a promotion might agree to put a title on someone who's not under contract to them (considering that most indie wrestlers are actually freelancers and not under contract to anyone), and that switch might happen at another company's show with which they have a good working relationship, but it is still a title owned by one promotion, and that promotion is agreeing for the wrestler to represent them, even if that wrestler has yet to appear in their ring. So I firmly say it should be listed by the promotion that owns the title. oknazevad (talk) 14:29, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

I am pretty indifferent in how we display it, but using that logic shouldn't we have Booker T's 4th and 5th WCW Championship win listed as WWF, since the 4th was on a WCW show but while WWF owned them? Another possibility, which I am sure people wont want, is a table rather than a bullet list. In that table we show each reign, rather than total number of times, and for each one we show who owns the title and what promotions event it was won at, we could show date won and lost, etc. Like I said, no one will want that, but thats the only way to really get everyone's stance into one spot. - Galatz^Talk 15:09, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

I do feel like it should be done for where the belts belonged to. The belts themselves are assets of the company, not the other way round. You could also put in footnotes if it was won/lost in a different company, or if the belt transitioned between companies mid-reign. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk o contribs)} 15:13, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

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TNA Epics

I am looking at the TNA Epics article and it lists that there are 14 episodes that have aired and 1 that never aired. Now looking at the GWN website (don't ned to subscribe but you can see listings without) [4] it shows 17 episodes. The first 10 episodes appear to match up but the others do not. Does anyone know more about this topic, as the article would need to be updated as it doesnt seem to be accurate. - Galatz^Talk 16:49, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

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WWE Performance Center in 'trained by' section

Not sure if this has already been discussed but can we establish a consensus not to include WWE Performance Center in the 'trained by' section for wrestlers who were trained and competed elsewhere before joining NXT? I'm looking at the article for Killian Dain and he's currently listed as being trained by the Performance Center, which makes no sense as he was wrestling for over 10 years before joining WWE. And I've noticed the same thing for a number of other wrestlers with years of indy experience. IMO this is pointless and misleading as well as being completely redundant, since every single NXT signing spends at least some time training at the Performance Center and even main roster guys use the facility from time to time. To me, the only time the Performance Center should be listed as a trainer is for guys like Lars Sullivan and Riddick Moss who joined WWE with no prior wrestling experience and were trained there from the ground up. 86.3.174.49 (talk) 23:52, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

This just like anything else should be included if it is supported by a WP:RS. Just because someone had experience elsewhere it doesn't mean they weren't trained by the performance center. People like Finn Balor and Samoa Joe had sizable careers before joining NXT, but if we have a RS that says they were trained by the performance center than it should be included. This profession, just like all others, people continue to learn throughout their career. If the performance center honed their skills or taught them a new style, than it shouldn't be excluded just because they had experience before. Similarly you don't exclude a masters degree from someone's resume just because they got a different masters degree somewhere else first, even if the two are similar. - Galatz^Talk 00:54, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

The section says 'trained by', not 'trained at'. Listing every single wrestler signed by WWE in the last 4 years and going forward as being trained by the Performance Center seems like completely redundant and misleading information. Someone like Nakamura for example was in the Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame before he even joined WWE, to list him as being "trained by" the Performance Center would be completely stupid even though he did spend some time training there while he was in NXT. 86.3.174.49 (talk) 02:11, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Do you have a source for that? The style in Japan is different than in the US so I would not be surprised if he spent a lot of time being trained on the different style. Again, just because you have been accomplished, doesnt mean you cant learn more. If an actor wins an academy award do we not include some sort of training they would include afterward because theyve already won an award? If we have a source, it should be included, not excluded just because it wasn't there original training. - Galatz^Talk 02:41, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Ditto to Galatz's point here. Just because some of these wrestlers have years of experience, that doesn't mean they can't receive additional or new training in another style (or to perfect their current style). Take an Olympic athlete for example. Maybe that athlete had been training for years and finally won a gold medal, then the next year, or a few years later, that athlete decides to start training with a new person because maybe they felt that their previous instructor taught them all that they could, but they still want to learn more. Are we to say that new trainer should not be listed since that athlete already had years of training and won a gold medal? That would be ridiculous not to. Although the Performance Center is a place, it's also used in this case to mean a group of trainers. It's much easier to list "WWE Performance Center" instead of every trainer that the wrestler trained with there. --JDC808 ? 05:02, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

While the IP does have a few valid points, I'm inclined to agree with Galatz. ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 05:08, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

I also agree with Galatz.LM2000 (talk) 06:27, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Source of the article : Wikipedia