Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Religion

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Video Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Religion

RfC at Karl Marx

Should the categories Ashkenazi Jews, German people of Jewish descent, Jewish atheists, Jewish philosophers, Jewish socialists, Jewish sociologists be added to this article?Talk:Karl_Marx#RfC RolandR (talk) 11:39, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Maps Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Religion

Should tables and pie charts which represent statistics in "religion in..." articles include the non-respondents?

There is an ongoing dispute in some talk pages about whether the mian text, tables and pie charts which represent statistics should include the non-respondents in the total count when the survey or census itself includes such option of not responding. Examples are "Religion in France" and "Religion in Hungary".

What do you think about this? Should or should not the articles include the non-responding population in statistical counts?--Wddan (talk) 08:40, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

• They should, since the non-respondents may include people of either any or no religion.--Wddan (talk) 08:42, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

In some cases, like the Religion in Hungary article, adjusted census data is needed in order to better understanding the surveys, that show very similar data. A reader that compares census results to survey results should know this. Many people choose to not answer to some questions also becouse for political matter, maybe they don't trust in the polling agency/government. The better way to deal with missing data is using data adjusting. This is a very neutral way to do this. It's assumed that the population with missing data has the same composition as the population we have data for. It doesn't exlude any particular sect as you would point out. By the way, I didn't remove the pie that includes also missing data.

Regarding the Religion in France article, the source already uses adjusted data, and it's more specific:

It cites 47% of contacted sample answered they are christians, 37% are non religious, 6% didn't answer and 3% followed an other religion other than Islam.

Adjusted data is 51.1% Christian, 39.6% Non-religious, 5.6% Muslim, 2.5 Other religion, 0.8% Jewish.---FrankCesco26 (talk) 11:30, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

We simply may not know why the people who chose not to respond did it, and what is their religion or non-religion. All the rest is speculation.--Wddan (talk) 09:26, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Pie and other charts should report the census or survey result. They should show "no answers" or "refused to answer", etc. as separate "pies". Another hint: In many countries we observe several surveys with quite differing data over time or sample groups. We should not edit warring over which data is superior, more recent or more reliable. We should rather use a matrix and report this data in separate columns, well knowing that they conflict. BR Ulrich --Nillurcheier (talk) 11:07, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+It's not speculation. We know the religious affilition of only the people that answered the question, so they are the only one taken in consideration. In surveys/censuses that have large unanswered data (for example Hungary, but also Slovenia, Czechia, Slovakia and others) leaving "no answer" as variable in the pie chart doesn't give a realistic view of the situation (especially in the comparision over time). It can be keeped, as @Nillurcheier: said, in separated tables or pies.FrankCesco26 (talk) 12:08, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

We don't "know" the affiliation - we know what people said their affilation was. (related to that, it is important to include numbers for people who refused to answer at all) Jytdog (talk) 20:55, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Jytdog: We are precisely discussing about that, about whether to include people who refused to answer at all in those cases in which the census or survey has an option for "opting out", such as Religion in Hungary.

By the way, Religion in the Czech Republic is not to be put into discussion, since the census report does not show double data, one including and the other excluding the non-respondents, as it is the case for Religion in Hungary but also Religion in France, this latter being a slightly different case in which the final count totally excludes the non-respondents.

Nillurcheier: I think that the separation of the two sets of data is a wrong idea, especially when they are not separated in the original report, since the projection of the results for the respondents on the non-respondent population is undue, as explained above.--Wddan (talk) 08:43, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Dear readers, we need other 1--3 opinions to reach a consensus about whether the non-respondents should always be included in tables and other graphics or not. At the moment the result of the discussion is inconclusive. I repeat my opinion once again: projecting the results for the respondent population on the non-respondent population is a gross mistake, since the non-respondents may include people who do not recognise themselves/are not members in the given organised religions but are not necessarily atheists.--Wddan (talk) 13:23, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

A headache! Still, they should be included when available, even though it is not always clear what the numbers mean.

In the case of Religion in China, the article is cluttered with tables and charts, some of which are way out of date, and some of which do not reflect the sources, but it's hard to get a consensus. Any advice on how to make the article parallel to others in the category would be welcome.ch (talk) 16:52, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

I think that if the number of non-respondent people is negligible (under 5%), it can be keeped. If it's so big to compromise the results, data should be adjusted. Also, if the source shows adjusted and non-adjusted data, adjusted data should be preferred.--FrankCesco26 (talk) 21:06, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

---

RESULTS:

• 1 vote for adjusted data (exclusion of the non-respondents) (FrankCesco26);
• 1 vote unclear (Nillurcheier, correct me if I misunderstood your opinion. At a quick reading of your comment it seems you support FrankCesco26's position, but it is unclear whether you meant "different pies" or "different slices" of the same pie);
• 3 votes for including the non-respondents (me, Jytdog, CH).

VERDICT: Data should include the datum of non-respondents when available/clearly shown in the published data

The discussion is closed.--Wddan (talk) 19:42, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

I ment different slices in one pie Sorry for confusing you BR --Nillurcheier (talk) 20:36, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. Now the consensus is even clearer:

• 1 vote for excluding the non-respondents;
• 4 votes for including the non respondents.--Wddan (talk) 13:49, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

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Utter ouster of small-sampled poor-quality survey data from "religion in..." articles when solid and official data is available, by force of policy

Definitions:

• "Big data" are censuses, official surveys, large-scale demoscopic analyses (such as the Sreda Arena Atlas of Russia), government-counted church membership
  • Government-filtered church membership are those, for instance, of Scandinavian countries; church membership data not filtered by a secular institution should be taken with pliers and avoided, since many of them tend to inflate their membership. The recent case of the Catholic Church's data fraud in Norway (they included 65.000 fake members) should be kept in mind as an exemplary case.
• "Small data" are small-sampled surveys and surveys conducted by general polling agencies and market agencies.

The latter ("small data") should be kept out in those cases in which the former ("big data") are available. In cases in which no "big data" are available, "small data" may be used, though carefully evaluating their due weight and therefore their due placement in the article.

Exemplary cases:

• Religion in Austria - church membership available
• Religion in Denmark - church membership available
• Religion in Estonia - census data available
• Religion in the Czech Republic - census data available
• Religion in Germany - church membership available

et. al.

Alternatively, this format (giving a less visible place to minor surveys, as a list at the bottom of the page or anyway far from the lede) may be applied for small data when "big data" are available.--Wddan (talk) 13:48, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Reliable surveys are completive to the articles. They shouldn't be erased.--FrankCesco26 (talk) 21:02, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

In the case for Czech Republic, the division is correct since the article has one "census data" section and one "survey data" section, but if the article has only one "demographics" section, both of sources should be in the same paragraph, since they complete the article.--FrankCesco26 (talk) 12:39, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

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Women in Red November contest open to all

--Ipigott (talk) 07:40, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

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MOS page about articles Buddhism

Dear fellow Wikipedians, In response to repeated discussions about policies and whether they hold for articles on Buddhism, I have drafted a policy proposal to include into the Manual of Style for Wikipedia articles about Buddhism. The proposal does not actually include much new policy, but rather attempts to apply policy to articles on Buddhism in an understandable way, similar to MOS:ISLAM. Content is based on discussions held on Buddhist articles, as listed on the talk page. Comments are welcome.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 08:28, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

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Talk:Fatimah

Comments are requested at Talk:Fatimah § Requested move 23 November 2017 concerning a proposed title change. --Sangdeboeuf (talk) 15:38, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

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Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Seventh-day Adventist historicist interpretations of Bible prophecy (2nd nomination)

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Seventh-day Adventist historicist interpretations of Bible prophecy (2nd nomination). James (^talk/_contribs) 04:56, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

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Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject

Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_Religion

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.-- Rod ^talk 18:24, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

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RfC on Church of Satan

Broader input is welcome at Talk:Church of Satan#RfC about Church of Satan membership figures. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 16:52, 11 December 2017 (UTC) John Carter (talk) 16:52, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

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Religious law

The article on Religious law would probably be of interest to this WikiProject. Vorbee (talk) 21:00, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

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Positions on Jerusalem

I added the WikiProject's template to the talk page of Positions on Jerusalem but it was removed. I think that it's on the scope of the project because of the religious importance of Jerusalem for the Abrahamic religions. Do you think that it should be re-added? Rupert Loup (talk) 01:09, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Source of the article : Wikipedia